I guess I'll start. I am Garrett Sauls. I'm content manager at Interworks. Welcome to Data Forum or sometimes otherwise known as Enable Me. We like, webinar with multiple names for sure. But, yeah, if you're here, obviously, you probably know why. It's just to kinda talk about data enablement topics and talk with lovely guests like Sagar to to get their wisdom and their knowledge and, their expertise from their roles and, and how they can maybe share that wisdom with you to apply your own organizations to hopefully not only, you know, work with data better, but to upscale users around you, that sort of thing. So I will kick it over to Annabelle to introduce our guest and introduce herself. Thank you very much, Garrett. So a warm welcome also from my side. My name is Annabelle Rincon. I'm living in Switzerland. I have twenty years experience in banking, fifteen years in data analytics. And on my last role, I was leading a center of enablement. That's why I'm truly convinced that the enablement is a key to success to any data analytic platform implementation or digital transformation. That's why we come up with this webinar series with Garrett, in order to learn from Zobest. So that's, why it's today a great honor to receive Sayah, Not only because he's a respected authority in data field, but because he's a wonderful human being always putting other people first. Several years ago, I had the chance to be, in VISCONNECT. So VISCONNECT was initiative, created and, led by, Sagar. And I think it was one of my first public speeches. So thank you very much, Aga, for pushing me to speak in public and be there and share my knowledge. Now, Sagar, works as a data and analytics self-service lead at Mondelez, empowering and enabling user across Asia. So please, say, yeah, thank you very much to for being of speaker today. And, yeah, you can introduce a little deeper yourself and maybe say to the audience what you are doing on your day to day activity, for instance. Sure, Annabelle. I think thanks a lot to you and Garrett for the opportunity over here. I think Annabelle was humble enough talking about that I give an opportunity. I think it's all about, she was able to go ahead and spare some time in Cognodesk Connect, and we were able to do some good sessions out there. So hello, everyone. My name is Sagar Kapoor. I have close to twelve years of experience in data and analytics. Currently, I am self-service lead working with Mondelez. If you know, don't know Mondelez, you might know Cadbury, you know, Oreo and Velveeta. These are all our awesome brands, which you eat, daily. Leading self-service over there for, for a region. Before that I was working with Tableau. So I was working with Tableau for close to five years. So Datafirm out there, huge shout out to you. Thank you for inspiring and then helping me in my journey over here. And my career has evolved in enablement for the last six years now. I have been helping customers before when I was in Tableau, how we can go ahead and help them understand the value out of the investment they have made. And in my current role, I'm doing the same thing, helping our business people, how to be self-service, how they can go ahead and understand the value of the investment we have made in different products, which we have out over here in Mondelez. And I think one thing which still amazes me is that, when you have someone create their first report, either it is Power BI or Tableau, irrespective of the tool, the smile they have and the confidence they have, right, they can go ahead and do that. I think that makes my day. And this is something for the last six, seven years, I'm going ahead and enjoying this phase of life. So, yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Looking forward to learn from both Anabel and Garrett, how we can go ahead and make enablement part of discussion for everyone. Thank you. Absolutely. Thanks for being here. I'm curious, kind of just diving into that, that first question. What maybe what you had mentioned a bit a bit about your work history and all that. What were some things that, like particularly at Tableau, you know, working on that side of things. What were some things that you took away from that experience that maybe fills in now? I know you had mentioned like the enthusiasm, right. And seeing that. What are some other things from your time working for them that you apply today still? I think, Tableau, one thing which I really loved in Tableau for the five years I was there, it was a culture, right? I think it was all in our culture to go ahead and help our customers and use the product. And that really resonated with me when I was working over there. Like when you're in front of the customer and you're able to talk to the customer, show them what you can go ahead and do with the product. I think that was something which motivated me to get into enablement. So my role in Tableau was I was a customer success manager and I joined, close to in twenty eighteen when I was just, part of five or six members leading the whole APAC region during that time. So it was all new during that time. We were trying to understand how we can reach out to more customers. And slowly and steadily, we were able to go ahead and create a program and rolled out. But I think once I go ahead and matured enough in the organization, I was able to work with more global customers. And I think every customer has their different story, how they're going in and using the product. And whenever you visit your customers, you are able to understand, right, how you can go ahead and impact them. So one thing which, I really went on is creating some programs and one program which I created was an enablement program and it was called Tableau Rookie to Expert. And the program was all about we as customer success manager of Tableau, we will come into your organization, and we'll talk about, Dubai first, why you have gone ahead and just an example, bought Tableau. What is the vision of your leadership? What exactly they want to achieve out of it? Right. And then based on that, go ahead and get a buy in from an executive, define that business goal and objective, which your executive have. And then based on that, we used to go ahead and run our six feet, five weeks program with it. And still at the back of the mind, it was not about I'm doing the consulting. It was all about train the trainer model. So what we used to go ahead and pitch, I will do the first cohort and I will teach you how to fish, but going forward, you have to go ahead and do it. And that really worked very well. Right. I had worked with close to four or five, customers during that time, and they were really able to understand the business value of it. Yeah. Happy to talk more about it if you have any specific question on that. Yeah. No. I love that. I think I think that's great context. And if it makes a lot of sense transitioning to, what you do now as a self-service analytics lead, again, really kind of educating the business case for Tableau or or any visual analytics to one being able to speak that language because there's certainly a way that you can frame things to analysts or people who are oriented, very tool oriented, who may have done this in the past versus maybe executives or business users. So I love kind of drawing that through line to what you do now to kind of, again, in that customer success manager, at Tableau and and and be able to see those connections because it just makes a lot of sense. I think for sure. Yep. Mhmm. One thing which really helped me, right? And then you can take the example of scale in Tableau. In Tableau, I was going ahead and handling close to a hundred plus customers when I joined. And then it got more strategic and became to ten to fifteen customers. That really built my muscle in enablement. I can say that because I was working with fifteen different customers, every customer had different expectation. Every customer had different maturity during that time. It was not easy to go ahead and get the, you can say executive alignment during that time. So how you should go ahead and work on that. I feel these are all skills that you have to build. So on those five years, I was able to go ahead and build that skill. And when I joined Mondelez last year in March, it was easy for me, right. In terms of drafting that program and really just went ahead and run it right. Because I knew what I, what I need in place over there because of the five years experience I had in Tableau running that program over there. Right. So I think it really helps me out, in terms of the experience which I had in Tableau all about scale and bringing all the great part, which I can go ahead and now implement in a Mondelez. Right. And just to share one more thing in Mondelez, we have, we both we have Tableau and Power BI. So literally what I was able to do, I was able to take the same program and run it with Power BI as well. And one thing which I mentioned everyone, right? When we start this program is that find out why, why do you want to go ahead and join this session? Like, don't come to this training to attend and forget about it. Right? For that, you can go ahead and watch a video to go for a self paced elearning. If you want to participate in a learning program, you have to define that business use case, find that why, because that will really help you to go ahead and start your journey over here. So I think these are some of the things which has really helped me over here. Mhmm. I like it. Yeah. And now that you you talked a little bit the subject, can you give us some tip of or to convince the executive? Because do you have, like, a playbook? I wish I had a playbook. Right. And I can go ahead and give it to everyone, but I think it's a, it's a great question about executive, right? What I have seen typically in my career as well, whenever we do any enablement program or we are talking about community, executive alignment comes at the end. Right. And what will happen? We will go back to our executive and say that, wow, we have trained these hundred people. Now they can go ahead and use Power BI, Tableau, anything. Right. But the problem is that why should that executive care about? So my advice to everyone is that identify what really that executive cares about. Right. If you're talking about a marketing person, what is that business goal and objective, which he really cares about? Right? You have to speak the business language if you really want your, executive to care about. I can give you one example, and this is something we did recently, for one of our customer when I was working with Tableau. So we had a conversation with them and they said that we really like your program. It was Tableau cookie to expert, and we want to implement it. And they were, they were ready to go ahead and start tomorrow. But one thing which I did, I said, let's take a step back. We know you are excited. This looks fascinating, but have you identified a goal and objective which you want these people to work on? He said, no. I said, let's go ahead and work on that. And I will not take the company's name over here, but what we did, we went back to understand, into their quarterly reports and everything. What is that goal and objective the company is talking about? And we were able to go ahead and specify and take that from the marketing point of view over there. And that goal, we really went and spoke to the executive, right? One thing which I simply say, when you're talking to an executive, just ask them, they will go ahead and tell what is their priority. The problem is that we don't ask them. Right. And that's the reason we are not able to go ahead and work on programs. And then that doesn't align with their objective and goals. So we literally said that this is something which we heard about the goal and objective. We said, yes, this is something I really care about. And that really translated in the old program, which we created. Right. We said, this is the goal. This is objective, which he has in mind. And just to give you one example, there is a business value map from Salesforce. I can maybe share the links in the end, but if you go ahead and look at this business value map from Salesforce, it all talks about what are the goals, what is an objective, what is the analytics capability you are building and what are the metrics on that? So what we used to do when we used to run the program, the goals and objectives used to go ahead and take it from the executive. And then working with the team, we used to define the metrics and the analytic capabilities for the products or the reports or dashboards were built during that enablement program over there. So at the end, when we are going back to the executive, we are not talking about, wow, see this dashboard. This is something which we have built for you. We were talking about that business value map saying that this was your goal. This is the report or dashboard, which is hitting the metric, which you really want to achieve. So I think my advice will be start talking to the business people in their language. It's not easy. It will never be, but have some patience, have some courage to go ahead and ask them questions. And I'm sure they will really help you in terms of, what do they really care about and how you can go ahead and start working on that direction. Yeah. I love I love that piece of advice. Real quick. And I think I think you kind of, had mentioned it and obviously you had mentioned we can share this link, later. But we had someone in the chat just ask what was the enablement, plan program called. And I'm guessing that they were talking about during your during your time at Tableau, but I think that It it was called Tableau Rookie to Experts. So maybe if you chat to your customer success managers out there still have my programs. Yeah. Or happily, I I I'm able to go ahead and share it with you. Just ping me on LinkedIn. I can do that. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's super helpful. Because I think I think a lot of times people, you know, they they like the I know I like plan. I like I like seeing things mapped out and kinda having a template and stuff like that. But I think what you said too about approaching people and having that conversation is a really important thing because a lot of times I what I've what I've heard in the past is from report builders or or analytics managers, sometimes there's this idea that, oh, if I build it first and then I show them, then they'll care. Then they'll, oh, how could they not see the value of this beautiful dashboard that I created? But then you you release it to them and they don't care because as you said, maybe you didn't identify the correct business case. Maybe you didn't identify the right goal or the right metrics. Metrics is a huge thing. Like, are we are we measuring success in the same way? So that's it's really brilliant stuff to be able to kinda go in and have that what do you want conversation before even starting to move anything in in Tableau or Power BI. Sure. I think just one thing I'd like to mention over here. I used to also think the same, right, in terms of going ahead and creating a report and then going back to your executive and showing them. There is a book called starting with why by Simon Sinek. Please go ahead and read that. It will completely change the way you go ahead and work into your day to day life. It helped me a lot. So when I joined Tableau in twenty eighteen, one of my manager, I will just take his name Vikram Ekamram over here. He recommended that book to me and said that you should definitely read that book. And literally it helped me to go ahead and translate what I'm doing right now. So it's all about the why, right? Start with the why, don't start with the what and how, and that will not help you in your long journey. Right? The book is called start with the why by Simon Sinek. Yeah. I can just try I have a book in mind when you are speaking about that. I I like as a book from how to, from Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. Unless it says the same. It's about vending. Sorry. Selling something. And, you really have to to know what is of interest of a person. So a CTO will be interested on maybe, return on investments. He invests a lot of money on the platform. He wants to see people use more and more the platform, but like a CFO will be more interesting on how many money you save. So it's always like you have to adapt your story to the best of most. Another question in chat real quick. Matthew had asked, are there any resources for a data analyst that can offer his or her services as a coach that can help learn through practice? I'm just thinking about it, I think, in terms of resources. Right? I think first thing for them is creating that structure of the program. Right? I think that will be important for you, what you really want to go ahead and achieve from this. So that, that would be my advice. And I will be very honest with you. I think lately I have started using ChartGPT a lot. So whenever I say that I have to design an enablement program, I first go to ChargeGPT and try to define a structure from it. Right. It can be anything. It can be about designing a workshop on performance and something like that. So I figured ChargeGPT will have some great resources. Definitely you should try that. And I think a lot of people in the Tableau community as well. I think, Annabel can go ahead and mention some of the people who are into enablement. They can share some resources out there. But, for me, I think the first thing which I do is just, try to research about it right on, on the service, which I really want to go ahead and pitch to my business and based on that work on it. Yeah. That's great info. I'm curious. You had mentioned the Tableau community and I think this is, this is a really interesting thing, right? Because the Tableau community has really taken off worldwide and it's here we are. Right? It's international. I'm in I'm in the States, Annabelle's in Switzerland and you're in India. So it's it's working. And so, but I'm I'm curious from your perspective, particularly, in India or particularly within the markets that you serve through Mondelez. What what has has been your experience in the community and what are some things that you have pulled from the community that, like, obviously, you had mentioned help with like structuring enablement programs so that's one thing but what are some other things that that value that you've gotten out of the community? I think one thing of which, which which I was able to experience in Tableau community was the openness and the transparency. Right. And this is something still, when I think about it, right, it's all out there. So just an example, in twenty twelve or thirteen, when I started using Tableau and I wanted to learn more about it. I was stuck somewhere. And I just remember I emailed Andy Kribble during that time for a query. And within one day I was able to go ahead and get his revert back. Right. Saying that, oh, this is the way you can go ahead and do that. And he even offered me to go ahead and schedule a call. Right. And that really fascinated me. Right. Like someone sitting in India who doesn't know anything about the community, people are there to help you. And that was my first, impression of the community. Right. The openness, it was not, not about which region you are based out of. You can then go and interact with people. People were out there to help you. Right. I'm sure Anabel has much more great stories to tell, but, I can give my experience. Right. When I joined Tableau and went to the conference of twenty nineteen, people just literally came to me and give me a hug saying that thank you for hosting WISCONNECT. And that really motivated me, right? Like you just talk to these people every day, but when you meet them and you go ahead and put their faces, right. I think that is something which really helps you, to understand the impact which you have created. Right. So I think community has been something special to me. Whenever when I was working with Tableau and now as well, it has gone ahead and reached a a huge level. Right. People are out there to guide you, to mentor you. People are taking their time out. Right. If you want some career advice and if you want to really go ahead and excel in your job. Right. I think that that is something which I've not seen with any other product. Right. And Tableau was the one and whole sold right. In terms of shaping it very well during that time. Yeah. I'm curious, Annabelle too, obviously, since you're very plugged into the community in that global aspect, you know, you help manage the the analytics tug. I mean, what is what is your experience been with kind of that that global community? And I'm sure we we'd be here all day talking about the things you've learned from community as well. But I mean, what what are some things that you've really drawn from that global community? They are, like, very, very friendly, obviously. I have, like, some, stories also, like, being stopped at the Tableau conference by a complete stranger that who also didn't hug me, but really, like, thanks me for doing this, analytic tag and that means a lot for them that they learn a lot. And for me, it's very important. Like, I don't need, like, twenty thousand email, but just this connection was enough for me to, to light my day. So it's, it's very important. Mhmm. Mhmm. It interestingly, it still happens. Right? If someone is new, they just reach out to someone like Tabla Vishmarie, Anibal is one of them and just request for their time. Right. I'm sure no one will go ahead and say no. They said, oh, let's go ahead and do that. And just remember, they're not paid for doing that. Right. This is out from their passion and they really want to help people. Right. And one thing which I realized is that Tableau community is all about giving back to it. Right. And the one way which I did when I started people were out there to help me. But when I joined Tableau, I realized all the sessions, which were happening from the community point of view, right. You're only happening in, in the US time zone. And people are not able to go ahead and attend from APAC or maybe from EMEA during that time. And that's the reason this connect was born in twenty nineteen with one of my, you can say friend over here in India, Divya Bhardi, we literally started this connect and we used to invite people saying that we are hosting this platform called this connect. It's completely virtual. We will have two speakers in a session. You have to just come and talk about it. Right. And we were able to reach out to more than fifty thousand people. And I'm not sure more than hundred videos we have, out on, YouTube channel. And it was just about giving back. Right. Like, I know people have gone ahead and done this session four am or five am their time. Right. And that that's the way people go ahead and give back to the community. Right. Because before they have received the same thing, same support when they were new to the community over here. So I think that that's a really good aspect of it. Right. Whenever you join a community, it's always about how you can go ahead and give back to it. Yeah. I think it's important. We learn through the community by asking question, by attending talks, by reading blogs. So as soon as you feel more confident, it's totally natural for me to give back one way or another. So Yep. Yeah. You you had mentioned session. I miss disconnect. You had mentioned this, Sagar, I think kind of in in, you know, when you were in your that customer success manager role at Tableau. But and and also now as well. But, you know, the the best way to learn and to accelerate your learning also is to teach it back to someone. And so I think that really does apply again to the to the data community. Of course, people go out, you know, probably their initial thing is they're going to the data community to seek something like an enablement plan or seek help with a dashboard or best whatever it may be. But, you know, a, it's it's good to give back to do that to kinda pay it forward, but it's also directly related and directly helpful to your own skills because there's no better way to learn than to teach. Right? No, I think that that's for sure. Right? And when I joined Tableau, one core value we had was we love our products and we should use it. And that really, I took it right. Saying that I know I'm a customer success manager. Maybe at that time, I, I might not have to be proficient in the tool, but I used to go ahead and take that pain and time to learn the product. Right. Because that is something when I used to go ahead and participate in community forums or in front of my customers, when I used to show them something in the product, right? Like I, someone who's able to go ahead and design a dashboard from scratch. And I used to give that example, like, take my background. If I can do it, you can also do it. And that really inspired them, right? Saying that let's, let's go ahead and do that. So I really feel that if you're going ahead and running enablement programs, you should take some sessions. Maybe you're not an expert. Maybe what I do right now, I can give my example in my current organization. I'm not an expert in Power BI, but, in my role for the last six, seven months, I spent time learning the product. And based on that, I was able to go ahead and give it back to someone who's new to Power BI and how they can go ahead and start their journey out there. Right. So I think it's, it's good to have that skill to learn something new. And, and it really helps you in terms of running these enablement program that you join, in, creating some impact in your organization. Mhmm. Mhmm. I'm curious too, now that you're working with multiple analytics tools, what are what are some of the commonalities? Obviously, I know I know Tableau and Power BI in terms of their function, in terms of what they output are very similar. But when you're talking to some users who maybe use Power BI, some users who use Tableau, and maybe even some users that use both, what are the what are what is that that those commonalities, to reach all of them that where you say, regardless of what tool you use, these are just general good ideas or best practice to help you succeed? Well, I think that that that's a great question. Right? I think one thing which I mentioned to everyone is that, irrespective you are using Tableau or Power BI, never start with a chart. Start with a question in mind, what exactly you want to go ahead and analyze over here, right? That will really help you out to drop that story, which you want to create in respect to the tool. So that that's the first thing which I tell them saying that, these are all products. It depends what have, what are your requirements. And based on that, you can go ahead and then draft your analysis. The second thing is that, learning a new product is like having a new hobby. It will not happen in a day. It will not happen in a month or maybe an year. Right? So you have to go ahead and invest time and effort in it. You have to practice. That's the only way you will be able to go ahead and build your muscle. So I think these are the two things which I mentioned, irrespective of what enablement session I'm taking away in model is. And that really resonates with everyone, right? Saying that we are not saying that you have to be expert by just attending my two hour session. Right? You have to go back and try to understand what really, you are able to go ahead and take it from there. And what is that use case you want to apply and understand the impact of it? Mhmm. From my experience, so, yeah, probably your experience too. I noticed that people learn better when they're having fun. So that's why when you are like, I was reading some, I don't know, visualization session with, like, a fun data set or something like that. Are you doing that too? Oh, not in my current organization, to be very honest. I think we have just started our in main program. We used to do a lot when I was working in Tableau with other customers. Right. We used to find some fun data set and used to give them a challenge to go ahead and work around and come back with their analysis. So we did one on types of beer in, in, I think it was across the globe. That was interesting data set to give it to everyone and the correlation they brought. Right. That was amazing to see. And Anabel is right. Right. I think it doesn't have to be serious every time. Find that fun data set, everyone works. And based on that, you should give an opportunity to everyone to show their skills. Right. And, I think, maybe this is something you might have seen, but there is a video of Christian Chabot in two thousand. I don't remember the exact date, but he talks about the process of data visualization and storytelling. And he says that it's a skill. That is something you should go ahead and build on. So, this is the same thing which I always talk to my audience, right, or the teams which I'm working on. This is a skill we should you should go ahead and work on it. Right. Rather than going ahead and talking about it in terms of, I can be a master of all the products. Right. You don't have to be a master of the products. You have to build that skill in terms of how you can go ahead and navigate anything comes your way over there. Yeah. Someone was just asking for the link to that video, which that would be great. Yeah. I've I I haven't thought about Christian in a in a while. But that that'd be that'd be great. And then that was my first time I saw his presentation and you, it was during a Tableau conference. It was around two am or three am my time. And I was literally up watching that presentation. Right. And I had goosebumps when he was talking about what exactly is the role of a data analyst and, someone who leads visualization. Right. So that was, that was fun. Yeah. I miss Tableau. Yeah. See everyone. Tableau was a good game. Yeah. That's good. If you can look back on a past experience and think of it because that's not always the case. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that it's very important when you build an NML program that you have your audience in mind. I I will share share that. I I I don't I don't remember if I already share my story. But when, I did on my previous job, like, several, visualization contest, let's say, and one worked very well. So, my audience were a banker. So I said Swiss banker, they are very inspired that I push like a that, a Game of Thrones data set, and they were a lot of participation. People were very happy. So the following year, I did I said, okay. Let's do it again. But this time, I work much more. I work with a more serious organization, I work with Red Cross, I had data and everything, and no one want to participate. And I said I don't understand. That is like kind of a wish for social good, you know, like Mhmm. And they didn't want because it was not so fun or they were very afraid of doing a mistake. Yeah. And that was a big lesson for me that you have always to know your audience and understand what's motivated them. So sometimes you learn like more from your mistakes. That's a great point and that's something that's really fascinating. I think like when when when it's too close to home or it's too sometimes people feel like the stakes are high and so they they and it's it's good they want to be careful they want to like do respect to the thing but sometimes that can be a barrier to entry. So they say, oh I don't want to do it if I can't do it right or I don't want to do it because I'm not I don't I'm not an expert and I don't want them to think you know I they deserve better or you know all the excuses Exactly. That we make. But with Game of Thrones or something like that, it's, well, you know, it does just for fun. It doesn't matter. But you give people permission and then they actually learn because they're not caught up in their own heads about making it perfect. So, I'm curious, you know, Segar, you you obviously work kind of pivoting back to that kind of regional focus. So, Mondelez, you work with a lot of different groups and a lot of different regions and a lot of different users. Have you noticed that there are I I guess maybe this is kind of a a way to back up and ask this question. But what what are those different groups and how do you reach out to them specifically? Do you find that different users in different regions have maybe different requirements or cultural ideas or goals or is it based on department? Doesn't really matter what the region is. It's just maybe job function or how do you just meet those different things and how are those split up? One thing which we have done over here is about creating a centralized structured program. That really helped us. Right? Saying that defining what that program is and having some and you can say guard race along that program. Right? In terms of who can participate, who can reach out. One thing and I can give a shout out for using skill build. Right? That is something I took it from the Tableau community. I I'm forgetting the name. Sorry about that. And I will maybe can add it away here. It was from I might come back to it, but this is something I literally took the skill build, from the community, went ahead and implemented it. And then based on that, what we really said that let's divide a program based on a learning path. Like, it should not be about, hey. If I'm new to maybe a Power BI, maybe Tabular in technology. Right? How you are guiding them, that is important to be here. It's not about if I have no knowledge about a product, I should directly jump to a hands on session. Right. And I should start working on it. It should not work that way. So what we literally did, we started a very structured program saying that, okay, if you're newbie to a particular tool, this is the first part you will go ahead and join over there. The other tip I want to give everyone is think about scale. You are just one and you will not be able to go ahead and run everything right. Think about scale in terms of how you can go ahead and maybe, you can say automate some parts. In my example, what I did for my first session, which was introduction to Power BI or Tableau. That is something we went ahead and make it virtual. It was just, you can say a five or six minute video, which everyone can go ahead and watch it. And based on that, they can understand what resources are out there. So I think that is important. First thing, define a structure path, which anyone can go ahead and join. The other thing is that you should have assessment so that it's assessment is not about to take your quiz and things like that. It's all about self evaluating yourself. Right? I have gone ahead and attended a session where exactly I I lie right now in terms of the whole proficiency level over there. So that is the second thing. Third thing is all about helping them select that use case when they go ahead and reach at that level. Seeing that now you have all the fundamentals of a product. Now you should think about that use case defining, something we used to do in Tableau called Tableau Doctor. Us. Over here we do something like an expert hours in which we go ahead and help our people when they are working on a use case. Right? So these are the three, four things which really, helps our business users whenever they want to go ahead and learn something new, they can join that centralized program and start reaching their proficiency level. Right. Starting from a newbie and maybe one day based on their passion and how they can go ahead and commit to a time. Right. They might reach an expert level in a product company. Mhmm. Yeah. I love that structure. I I think there's, like, a fine line, right, between providing enough structure and enough freedom for people to feel like they can we had mentioned obviously with with with datasets and other stuff that they they feel like they can play, they can experiment. But also you can't just, you know, give people a blank white page either because then they'll never they'll never get started or they'll never have guidelines. Or they'll like you said, without those assessments, they would never know where to start. I think about this often where every few years I will retake Tableau fundamentals, which is good because there's always, like, new features and stuff like that. But I think the last time I took it and it's not that the the session was great and and the and the trainer was great because we do it here internally at Innerworks. But I think what I realized going through that was, like, oh, I maybe I should have taken the intermediate because, like, while there are there are new features, but I could have read a blog about the new feature and learned what I needed to learn. So I think it is important to have that self assessment to know where you're at and what types of of training and upskilling things you're gonna get the most value of because we only have so much time, right, to to spend. And so if you spend all your time maybe on something that's not so relevant, well, you don't know when you're gonna get time to do the relevant thing down the road. So I I think that's really, really wise to have enough structure and to have assessment not for the sake of, you know, making people feel bad about their skills, but just being honest about where they're at and what they need. For sure. And I think the person I was trying to mention was Pee Gordon. I will just post a video, in which she has spoken about the whole skill bit. And that is something which really helped me when I was in Tableau and in my current organization as well. How you should think about enablement, creating write checks you mentioned. Right? Assessment is one of them. What should be a process? How people can go ahead and register? Talking about batches, how you can motivate these people. Right? Anna will mention about making it fun. It It should not be a serious thing, right? Going ahead and making it fun. Launching community of practice, right? That is something which really helps. Right? You are going ahead and training people and they are based on different regions. They might be working on the same business challenge, how you are bringing them all together using a community of practice. You can host it region wise. You can host it, department wise, whatever you're comfortable. But that really helps people to connect with each other. And that is something which is missing in the implement program, right, when you want to go ahead and think about it. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. For instance, in my case, when I implement the skill belt, in my company, I took, a skill belt that was given to me by, someone that developed it. So into that approach, I changed some aspect, and then I create myself a Tableau dashboard that check through the Tableau server logs who attend which session of the skill belt. And, then I give the code back to the community through a blog. So, you know, like, I take something and I try to put something else. And I even, like, designed some cute, stickers when people pass one. Pass one. Yeah. Well, that's a that's a that's a good one. Right? One thing, which Anna will mention over here. Right? How do you measure all these things? Like, you are running these training sessions. At the end of the day, you can't just say that, oh, I have trained these hundred people. One way to do that is going back to your Tableau or Power BI server. Right. And trying to understand from your Postgres data or the admin insights, how many people are creating dashboards and trying to correlate the people who have gone ahead and attended your session. That can be a good metric for you to go ahead and track saying that because of my training, they were able to go ahead and create these dashboards. Right. And it can be over a period of time, maybe three months, six months. And you can go ahead and work on that. The second metric is to go ahead and compare. People are coming to your enablement program versus the people who are not coming, try to measure their performance or the way they are designing reports or dashboards that can be other way to measure it. Right. And also the adoption, right? If you're reaching out to more people, the adoption of the production also go up. I think these are some of the things we should keep in mind whenever we are running an improvement program, data, not with something just, about, number of attendees and things like that. Right. It should be all about what exactly it is cascading into. Maybe it is taking that option up or it is directly impacting in the efficiency or giving some business value back to the business. Right? So I think that that will that is always interesting to work on. Yeah. Mhmm. I I like also to check, the missing data. So people who have a Tableau license or poor BI license or whatever, but who are not active on Tableau server. So I will contact them and say, okay. Do you need some help? Are you blocked by something? Do you need some training? And sometimes you, you solve a little issue that we're just blocking them, but for one reason, we're we're not contacting you. So I really love that. That that that that's a great point. Right? I think and and this is something which I learned from Tableau, being a customer success manager. Right? I'm still a customer success manager for my current organization, for all my business people. Right? Giving that wide glove treatment, right, to them, reaching out to them, saying that, oh, I saw you're not using your, Power BI travel license. What happened? How can I help you? And maybe pitching them to the enablement program, which you have gone and introduced. You will not believe many of the people when you reach out to them. Right? Like they're, they're really passionate about all these things and really make an effort to come back and join your program. So I think that's a great program. Keep that. I, I know we are in a world of AI. Everyone is automating all these initiatives. Right. But I still feel that we should have one way or the other to reach out to these people, ask for feedback. In, in Tableau, we used to do something called virtual coffee hour with all our customers. So every monthly or, depending on whenever they are available. And it was just about having a conversation, right? We used to not talk about business. We should not talk about what is going on. We used to take feedback from them, seeing that, okay, how we are doing, where we can go ahead and improve ourselves. And that's something which really resonated with everyone saying that take care for us. And then I think I should mention this thing about Tableau and like, this is something which we used to hear from a lot of customers. Even if you buy one license, someone from Tableau will reach out to you and ask how you're using it. Right. Or you buy an enterprise deal. I think that was a culture which I experienced in my five years. Like, and that really helped me to now as well. How you should go ahead and work with your internal business team, having that mindset of these are your customers for you and make sure their success is your success. Right? And how how you can go ahead and make them impactful and, look good in front of their leadership out there. Yeah. What I really like about enablement that's touched the human part. Mhmm. You know? Correct. Yeah. Because with AI, everything, everyone is focused on, performance, on investments, on platform. Yes. But you have the human part that is very important and reach out to someone, individually, sometimes makes all the difference. So yeah. I love that. I just saw the question Suzanne is asking. Can you provide guidance on how to create enablement in small organization compared to the large ones? I think my advice to you, Susan and Anabel can add over here is that start simple. Don't over complicate it. Maybe you are starting just with a rookie or an intermediate or advanced level, right? Make it very simple for them. The first thing you should do, right. Create assessment, try to evaluate them where they are in their journey. And then based on that, try to define them in these three buckets, right. Whether locate rookie over here or intermediate or an advanced level, right? That will really help you in terms of starting your program. It's easy. I think it's all about just sitting one day, thinking about what are the different levels you want to have, how you want to assess these people, who will deliver the content. And I start simple and things should be should work for you. Happy to help you. You can reach out to me, happy to share the rookie to expert program, which I have created that might help you in terms of your journey. Yeah. Anabel, any advice if you have? Anabel, do you want to add something to it? No. You you we can, go through with, like, a list of, nice blog posts from different people from the community already. I've given advice to you. Yeah. Yeah. I I I love that. I think it's maybe this is, again, I'm I have I've not been an enablement lead anywhere at all, but I I feel like hopefully in smaller organizations, it's easier to have those one on one connections with people and to go directly to them and to kind of as you had mentioned Sagar ask well what is your business use case or if you're in a certain function what are you using this for and maybe you can collaborate a little more frequently. Maybe you can lean on those collaborations. And it's not that you can't collaborate in large organizations. Of course, you can. But I feel like in large organizations, you're very much like, well, this is my team and these are the people I work around. But if you're a small organization and you do a little bit of everything and you sit next to someone it's this person in finance and is this person in marketing. And so maybe leaning into those collaborations and leaning into that one on one and kind of just being small and and agile and doing it collectively. I feel like, as inner as Innerworks has grown back when we used to be fifty people, and we still collaborate today, but that was very much a hallmark of those of those early days was just reaching out to to different people and collaborating. Even if it's just like, why is accounting collaborating with marketing? They don't they don't talk often. They don't need to talk. But sometimes you just never know what you get from those unexpected things. So Sometimes in small organization, what happened is like, for instance, it's a data analyst. We will be passionate about a certain tool. We'll give advice. So out of their own work, they will give advice to other people. So my suggestion is if you are not an an enablement lead in your organization, but you still wants to, enable people and not take too much from your working hours, it will be like, for instance, yeah, to start with a coffee, coffee weekly with people that aren't interested, share tips, and, go like this. And then after, you can convince your boss to to change your role at least some time now to enablement. But, yes, there is some strategy. That's a great advice. Right? Like, starting simple, have that coffee, trying to understand where they are stuck in terms of day to day their challenges. Right? And based on that, create your enablement program. It can be as simple as that. Just an example, like, you're having a expert, Tableau office hours, whatever you want to call it, right? Hosted every week, every month, whatever you're comfortable and try to document what questions are coming for those sessions, right? That will really help you understand, oh, I'm getting a lot of questions on calculations. Maybe I should go ahead and host a session on calculation or enablement program. Maybe I'm getting a lot of questions on data modeling or maybe design or things performance. So based on that, you should go ahead and create an implement program, right? As Anurag said that it's simple. Just go ahead and get people in at home, give them, opportunities to reach out to you. And then based on that, you can start these programs out there. I like that you mentioned documentation. That is a very underrated yet simple thing that people can do at every level, whether you're small or large, is ahead of time, making notes of those trends. But even as simple as a conversation, if you have a conversation with so and so over in in this department, to write that down. It's because it's I do this all the time. It's very easy to to forget what you talked about once you sleep for a night, you know, and maybe you don't remember all the details, especially as you get older. So, I think I think it's a great idea to document as much as you can because even if you don't use it immediately, you know, a week, two weeks, a month, six months down the road, you might refer to that in creating something useful. So They can do yeah. For sure. Yeah. It can be also an intranet page where you put all the most frequent question. Mhmm. Yeah. Opening it up to people. That's great. Having again, we had mentioned centralized resources even if even if you're small, whether it's an Internet page or a shared doc, a shared Google doc even if you don't have, you know, you're not a web developer. You don't know how to do that. There's there are ways that you can have collaborative things and and open that up to people. So yeah. So as you not just, your feedback and your documentation, but maybe your power users and other people who are in the tool and they say, oh, you know, I logged in on Tuesday and I, looked up three blogs on how to do, you know, table calculations because that was unfamiliar to me. So that's good data to know. Cool. One question I have, Sayah, for you is how do you motivate and reward people for upscaling? I mean, for me, it will be chocolate, but not everyone is like I think, one way our organization does it, we have a internal tool which we use in terms of giving shout out to people. Okay. So what I yeah. What I make sure whenever someone is participating in enablement program, they have gone ahead and, you can say done all the assignment, they were active in our sessions. I make sure to go ahead and send one on one email to their manager saying that they participated in our program. This is what they have done, and this is literally what they have created. Right. So I think building that credibility with them in terms of you're sharing your work with your manager. Right. The other thing which we also do, sometimes is giving, I love books. So what I do, if someone has gone ahead and excelled in an enamelment program, I go ahead and give a book or something to them. Right. That really helps them. Also, we have internal program of giving certification vouchers and things like that. This is one way we go ahead and reward people. Right. But I have seen, if you're able to help them look good in front of their, leadership, I think that is something that really boosts their confidence, right. Saying that, yes, I should participate because this will give me a ladder to reach to my executive and show what I have done. So I think these are some of the ways in which we go ahead and report them. Right. So it's not just about attending the training, right. It's all about the impact of it and sharing it back with their leadership. The other way, which we have also done is giving certification, internal certification. So if you go ahead and maybe pass, one level of our training program that is, maybe a newbie, we will give you a certification saying that you have passed the basic level of it. Right. Which you can go ahead and use in your work day or LinkedIn. Right. Saying that this is our team, which I have created over here. So I think these are some of the ways which we motivate people, right? In terms of recognizing them and making sure they're able to share the experience with other. The last one I just want to share with you is inviting these people to the community forums, like community of practice and giving them a platform to talk about their journey. Right. So in that, the platform is all yours. Talk about what you have achieved and that really helped them, understand, right, the opportunity in which they are getting in making sure they participate in the program and how they're sharing that knowledge back to anyone who wants to get inspired and start their journey from scratch. Yeah. I love that. That's great. I'm gonna share the final slide here, but we probably have time for one more question. If anyone if anyone wants to get it in right at the buzzer, now is the time. But I I think you had mentioned it too. Both of you, Annabelle and Sagar, had mentioned that, you know, people have follow-up questions or they want resources. LinkedIn is is a great place to reach out and and ask those things. And and, of course, we're happy to provide those resources. And just like one one little note, we will send this this will be posted to YouTube. There will be a recording for people to refer to it, and we'll include as many links in. This is my we might have set a record for links included and shared in in a program, so include as many as possible. But, I mean, any final questions from the audience before we call it a wrap? We'll wait. While we're waiting, I'll I'll just say, an immense thank you to both of you for coming on and sharing sharing your knowledge. There's some real nuggets in here for sure. Some real gems of of of wisdom, that I don't think we've heard before, in terms of wrapping enablement. And not just enable not just data enablement. I feel like a lot of this applies to whatever you do, whatever your function, you can you can copy a lot of this advice and apply it, into other facets. So No. I think likewise. Thanks a lot, Garrett and Anabel for this opportunity. It's always fun to share what you are doing right and learn from everyone. So, yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Absolutely. Thank you for coming. I love learning from you, and, you know, I wish we had this conversation years ago. So we have been a lot more creative. Well, great. Well, we're at the eleven o'clock hour. To everyone who tuned in, thanks for joining again. This will be posted later. We'll have a follow-up. But, Sagar, Annabelle, thanks again. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye. Take care. Thank you very much. Bye.